421 N. COUNTY FARM ROAD

WHEATON, IL 60187

DU PAGE COUNTY

ETSB - Policy Advisory Committee

Final Summary

www.dupagecounty.gov

Monday, March 6, 2023

8:15 AM

Room 3500A

CALL TO ORDER

8:15 AM meeting was called to order by Chairman Hayden at 8:15 AM.

ROLL CALL

Matthew Theusch, Emergency Telephone System Board

Eve Kraus, DuPage Emergency Telephone System Board

Kurt Bluder, Hinsdale Township High School District 86 (Remote)

Jim Connolly, Village of Addison (Remote)

Reid Foltyniewicz, Oak Brook PD (Remote)

Michael Hylton, Oakbrook Terrace PD (Remote)

Todd Kubish, Villa Park PD (Remote)

Bob Murr, College of DuPage (Remote)

Jimmy Lahanis, Darien-Woodridge Fire (Remote)

Michael Rivas, Villa Park PD (Remote)

On roll call, Members Hayden, Dina, Baarman, Hermes, Herron, and Johl were present, which

constituted a quorum.

Dina, Hayden, Baarman, Hermes, and Johl

PRESENT

CHAIRMAN'S REMARKS - CHAIR HAYDEN

Chairman Hayden said, sadly, this would be Member Herron's last PAC meeting; Member

Herron is retiring. Chairman Hayden asked Member Herron if he would be available to attend

the ETS Board meeting on Monday, March 13 at 9:00am as Chairman Schwarze will have a

resolution for his service. Member Herron replied he would try.

PUBLIC COMMENT

There was no public comment.

CONSENT ITEMS

Chairman Hayden asked for a motion to combine Consent Agenda Items A/Minutes approval for

ETSB PAC February 6, 2023; B/DEDIRS February Maintainer Report. Member Herron

motioned, seconded by Member Johl. On voice vote, all "Ayes", motion carried.

Chairman Schwarze asked for a motion to receive and place on file Consent Agenda Items

A/Minutes approval for ETSB PAC February 6, 2023; B/DEDIRS February Maintainer Report.

Member Herron motioned, seconded by Member Johl. On voice vote, all "Ayes", motion carried.

23-1020

ETSB PAC Minutes - Regular Meeting - Monday, February 6, 2023

2023-02-06 PAC Minutes Summary.pdf

Attachments:

23-1025

DEDIRS February Maintainer Report

2302ETSBRadioMaintenanceReport.pdf

Attachments:

APPROVED THE CONSENT AGENDA

Steve Herron

RESULT:

MOVER:

SECONDER:

AYES:

Pat Johl

Dina, Hayden, Baarman, Hermes, Herron, and Johl

PARENT COMMITTEE APPROVAL REQUIRED

6.A.

ETS-R-0014-23

Resolution to amend Policy 911-005.6: DuPage Emergency Dispatch Interoperable

Subscriber Unit System (DEDIRS) Use of Emergency Button.

Chairman Hayden said if the policy is ready, they could take action on it today and move

it forward to the ETS Board. Member Johl motioned, seconded by Member Herron.

Vice Chair Dina reviewed the addition of the emergency button on the mobiles. He said

there was discussion on this item as the Fire Standardization Focus Group (FSA) meeting

and he believed that section was ready. He continued saying he believed the section on

the portable radios was in conflict within the policy and there may be more work to be

done. Vice Chair Dina said that until the radios are programmed and the button has been

tested to work correctly, then they probably do not want to approve the policy today. Mr.

Theusch spoke to the section on the portables and explained that when the Chief who was

questioning how the button functions on the radios and that it was in conflict with the

policy wording, he (the Chief) thought it was conventional and STARCOM channels.

Mr. Theusch said they discussed this at the FSA meeting and a line was added to clarify

the tone would have priority over spoken radios. Vice Chair Dina said he still believed

they should wait for the programming of the APXNextXN fire radios to ensure they

function per the policy.

Mr. Theusch also noted that the section that talked about the TC workflow after the

button was pushed, based on the discussions at the FSA meeting, much of the wording

was struck and the expectation is that the PSAPs will work together to standardize the

operational functions.

Chairman Hayden asked if there was an idea when the radios would be ready. Vice Chair

Dina said it was close. He said when the Motorola System Manager went to program the

radios, it was discovered the SmartConnect feature was not in the XNs. He said that

issue has been addressed. Mr. Theusch confirmed the feature is in the radio and the

firmware has been pushed to a test radio, but they are waiting for the official word from

STARCOM. Vice Chair Dina said once that is confirmed, the twelve XN radios should

be programmed and distributed to the Fire Focus Group and PAC Members for testing.

There was a brief discussion on how to proceed with the policy as there was a motion and

second to approve. Chairman Hayden said a "No" vote means it would not move forward

to the ETS Board and they would place it on the agenda again for next month. On roll

call, the Members unanimously voted "No".

911-005.6 DuPage Emergency Dispatch Interoperable Radio

System (DEDIRS) Emergency Button draft 3.13.23.pdf

Attachments:

DEFEATED

RESULT:

MOVER:

SECONDER:

NAY:

Pat Johl

Steve Herron

Dina, Hayden, Baarman, Hermes, Herron, and Johl

POLICY DISCUSSION

7.A. Policy 911-005.8

Chairman Hayden said there was a redline copy of the policy that was emailed to the Members

with their packet. Mr. Theusch added there was a clean copy, as well, for ease of reading.

Member Johl confirmed no action would be taken, this was a discussion item, and that he had

some items to discuss. Member Johl said that from the fire side, there were concerns regarding

TDMA compliance and AES encryption on legacy radios and radios outside of the DEDIR

System. He said outside agencies are going to use DEDIRS channels for mutual aid with

DuPage and we have to work with them. He would like to see some of the restrictive TDMA

language removed and make it so ETSB has the final say on which radios are allowed on the

system. Member Johl said the fire side has radios on the system that just monitor, they do not

transmit, that do not degrade the system and are not TDMA compliant. He said there are also

multiple caches of radios that are not going to use the encrypted talk groups, they are held as

spares for special events or large scale incidents that could be used on a non-encrypted channel

and there should be an exception for those radios. Member Johl said he believed this affects the

fire side more so than law enforcement but that law enforcement may have an issue with

requiring all radios to be encryption capable and TDMA.

Member Hermes believed the language regarding GPS also needs to be changed as ACDC also

has legacy radios, some of which do not have GPS capabilities required to be enabled in the

policy.

Mr. Theusch said he believed the intent with TDMA was that it would be enabled in all ETSB

radios, not necessarily agency owned cache radios. He said the intent was to upgrade any

APX7000s.

Member Herron said the APX7000s are TDMA enabled. Mr. Theusch and Member Johl

responded, not the fire ones. Member Herron believed there had to be a sunset on FDMA.

Member Johl said he understood that was the reason to go to this system but every fire main

dispatch group is patched through a VHF channel. Member Baarman said it is all the ops

channels, that if a radio is affiliated, it downgrades the call. Member Johl said that is why it

should be left up to the ETSB to determine if a radio downgrades a channel then it would not be

allowed on the system. Member Baarman said we have that today. All the police are TDMA

capable, but when fire listens in, it downgrades the call. Member Baarman said the last report

they had run showed only 25% of calls were TDMA, which is not many if all police are TDMA.

Member Johl said there are radios on the DuPage system that are not TDMA capable and that is

what we are trying to get away from with the new radio purchase, but they are not on the street,

or in the vehicles yet. He reiterated that radios outside of the system, radios built into buildings,

or cache radios are not transmitting every day and not downgrading the system, should be

determined by ETSB whether to allow them to be in operation. Member Herron clarified with

Member Baarman who said, if the radios affiliate to the talk group, as soon as that radio is on an

ops channel, it pushes the channel to FDMA. Member Baarman confirmed saying, it just takes

one radio. Member Herron said to Member Johl, that is just listening, that is not transmitting.

Member Herron said law enforcement will be utilizing AES, fire will not, but fire will have it on

the new radios, so any legacy radio that does not have that capability will not be able to listen.

Member Baarman said he would like to see a goal to get to TDMA, that maybe the language in

the policy is too strong, but there needs to be a plan to address those radios of concern. He said

from a PSAP perspective, the more talk groups he can get to TDMA, the less busies they

experience. He said, ultimately, that is the goal they are looking for. He said VHF is patched,

they are not concerned about the dispatch channels, those will remain FDMA. But if users are

using the ops channels instead of the firegrounds, more traffic will be brought in more frequently

which can cause more busies.

A brief discussion ensued around older model radios and whether flashcodes are available, how

many legacy/cache radios are on the system and whether agencies budgeted to replace the legacy

radios on system, of which Member Johl said there are at least twenty mobiles on the ACDC side

and an unknown number of portables. Member Johl said there is still useful life on the 7000XEs

and if they only get VHF channels and are not on STARCOM channels because they would

degrade the TDMA capable STARCOM radio channel, okay.

Mr. Theusch said the intent of the ETSB with this radio project was to end of life all the

APX7000s. As the agencies were coming in, legacy equipment was talked about, some agencies

said they had models to upgrade and ETSB ordered or took notes to order the necessary flashkits.

He said if there is a need for flashkits to upgrade the mobile APX7500s, that can be done. He

recalled conversations with agencies who wanted to keep their 7000XEs for VHF purposes only,

but not to transition once the radios were rolled out. Member Johl agreed that he does not want

to degrade the system, but there needs to be language to allow use of these radios when users ask,

at the discretion of the ETSB, even if that means they are told what channels they can be on just

so they can still be used.

Member Herron said, being a short-timer, he would want to know which of his budget cycles this

would affect rather than have ETSB tell him. He thought that should be a goal for 2025, or

whatever, for everything to be TDMA enabled. Member Herron said nothing against ETSB, but

if they arbitrarily throw out July 1, 2023 as the date, that is not fair because then agencies are

scrambling. He thought January 1 or June 1 of 2025 would give all the agencies at least 1-2

budget cycles for a sunset date. Chairman Hayden asked Mr. Theusch if ETSB had a date. Mr.

Theusch and Member Johl both answered December 31, 2023. Mr. Theusch said to keep in

mind the radios are here now. If agencies are coming to ETSB in 2025 to have radios replaced,

the current pricing through Motorola will no longer be available. Member Herron recalled the

conversation that had taken place during a previous meeting approximately a year ago when the

date of December 31, 2023 had been discussed. Chairman Hayden inquired into the deadline for

a change order with Motorola for agencies to purchase the additional radios to replace the legacy

radios. Mr. Theusch answered he does not have a specific deadline, just that Motorola is anxious

to complete a true-up that was to come at the end of the deployment as agencies have changed

their mind about the equipment they originally ordered.

Further discussion ensued regarding the impact to the system if radios that are not replaced.

During this discussion, Member Baarman made it clear to the group that the only channels that

would not downgrade the system if a non-TDMA radio affiliates are the six fire channels.

Member Hermes believed there were two different items being discussed: whether the radios can

be maintained and a deadline for everything to go TDMA. The decision was made to leave the

date within the policy as December 31, 2023, which can be further evaluated at a later date, as

needed. The Members also inquired into a list of radios potentially approved to be on the

system, such as Naperville and their Harris radios. The policy application was shared on screen.

The application includes the question of what type of radio models an outside agency is

requesting be allowed to access the DEDIR System. Mr. Theush reviewed and clarified the

adjustments they would like to see made within the policy.

DEDIRS PORTABLE AND MOBILE REPLACEMENT

Vice Chair Dina said a list of outside agencies was provided to the ETSB as to which agreements

need to be updated. He believed once those updates are complete, then the fire side could be

programmed. He also said there the individual email addresses were no longer needed for fire

side radios. Some of the features would then not be available, such as SmartMessaging, but that

was not going to be utilized until FOIA compliance is in place. He concluded by saying once the

fix for SmartConnect is implemented, then the 12 radios for Fire Focus and PAC Members will

be programmed and disemminated for testing.

Mr. Theusch said that the latest firmware version for the APXNext radios was available. He said

Motorola was pushing the firmware to a couple cache radios for testing, then training material

will be updated and firmware will be pushed to one agency to start. Another Zoom session will

be scheduled with DEDIRS contacts as informational because this is the first firmware push to

go out direct to the agencies.

Vice Chair Dina asked Mr. Theusch to provide an update of the mobiles and agencies that have

asked to receive theirs before their deployment. Mr. Theusch said a handful of agencies have

asked for their mobiles early because they have received new vehicles and would like to install

the mobiles with the current codeplug. He said part of the challenge was figuring out what was

needed for wifi and the encryption process over the air, otherwise every programmed radio

would need to be touched. Mr. Theusch said the wifi was worked out with Motorola last week,

and that this week agencies who had submitted Zendesk tickets for equipment were being

contacted, and prioritized for vehicles without any radio equipment currently installed.